Monday, July 07, 2014

7th Pay Commission: Should other Central services officers get an IAS salary?

THE IPS, IRS, IRTS and other Central service officers may step up their demands of getting equal pay with that of an IAS or IFS officer, as the 7th Pay Commission is now examining a pay revision that may come into effect from April 1, 2016. Satya Prasant P, an Indian Revenue Service officer who had earlier voiced his concerns about the IAS hegemony, has in his personal blog made a strong pitch for equal salary for officers belonging to all services, appealing the 7th Pay Commission to end the existing distortion. Let’s first see how much more an IAS officer gets than that of officers belonging to other services:
In a highly analytical piece written in his personal blog satyaprasantp@blogspot.in, (Full Article)  Prasant estimates that an IAS or IFS officer in a month gets Rs 4,000 to 5,000 more than officers belonging to other services after four years of service though all pass the same competitive examination. The gap goes up to Rs 15,000–16,000 per month by 14th year and Rs 18,000-20,000 per month by 17th year of service, as IAS and IFS officers are accorded additional increments at 3% each over their basic pay at three grades i.e. Senior Time Scale (STS), Junior Administrative Grade (JAG) and Non Functional Selection Grade (NFSG). “The Transport Allowance and other Allowances are calculated as a percentage of basic salary or basic salary plus DA. So it is anybody’s guess as to what will be the difference in salaries being paid to an IAS/IFS officer and other officers belonging to other Services like IPS, IRS, etc. as a result of two additional increments being granted to IAS/IFS at three levels,” he adds.
Prasant argues that this discriminatory practice has its roots in the erstwhile British colonial administration when the Indian Civil Service (ICS) was an elite cadre of officers comprising predominantly the British nationals or Europeans that occupied top administrative positions. Post-Independence, IAS took ICS’ space.
Prasant concedes that those IAS and IFS officers who got selected before 1979 could be considered of higher merit than those selected for IPS and other Central services, as the former had to clear two additional optional subjects of master’s degree standard. But examination pattern got changed since 1979.  
Based on Kothari Committee recommendations of 1976, recruitment to IAS, IFS, IPS and other Central Civil Services was being made through a common civil services examination since 1979. “However, the edge enjoyed by the IAS/IFS over the other Services in respect of salaries is being continued even after 1979 citing one or the other reason,” Prasant writes.
In fact, the question of pay parity cropped up during the earlier pay commissions as well, but the demand was set aside mainly with an argument that IAS officers are still the best talent, and they are generally posted in small places in their initial career. Also, they face frequent transfers, and the pulls and pressures that they have to stand upto early in their career are much more intense. The following is an excerpt from the 6th Pay Commission report that argued why IAS officers should get a better pay: “The role of IAS is still very important in the overall scheme of governance. They have an important coordinating, multi-functional and integrating role in the administrative framework with wide experience of working across various levels in diverse areas in Government. They hold important field level posts at the district level and at the cutting edge at the start of their careers with critical decision making and crisis management responsibilities. The leadership function, the strategic, coordinating and integrative role at this level requires the best talent available. The existing position would, therefore, need to be maintained. It will ensure that IAS officers near the beginning of their career are given slightly higher remuneration vis-à-vis other services and act as an incentive for the brightest candidates to enter this service. This is essential as the initial postings of IAS officers are generally to small places, they face frequent transfers and the pulls and pressures they have to stand upto early in their career are much more intense. The slight edge in the initial stages of their career would, to an extent, neutralize these problems. The Commission, accordingly, is of view that the existing edge for IAS in the three grades viz. Senior Time Scale, Junior Administrative Grade and Non-Functional Selection Grade needs to be retained.”
But according to Prasant, it’s a myth that IAS officers are the best talent available among the candidates selected through civil services examination. And this myth is “perpetrated by the IAS lobby to gain an unfair advantage over the other sister civil services in the country”, he adds.
Analyzing the Service Allocation lists for the civil services examinations from 2005 to 2012, Prasant sums up like this: “All those candidates who are allotted IAS in the Civil Services Examination merit list are neither the toppers of that year’s exam nor the brightest of the candidates selected in that year.”
Further, he calls the 6th Central Pay Commission’s justification of a higher pay for IAS “by citing their initial postings to small places, frequent transfers and intense pulls and pressures” as highly self-contradictory.  Prasant retorts: “Initial postings of IPS and Indian Forest Service (IFS) officers are also to small places. The pulls and pressures on IPS officers are much more than on the IAS officers.  The frequent transfers are seen more in the case of IPS than in the IAS.  IPS officers are at the forefront of combating terrorism and naxalism, which are the biggest security threats the country is facing.  IPS officers are working overtime to ensure that public order is maintained across the country.  The majority of the Central Civil Services officers belonging to Services like IRS(IT), IRS(C and CE), IDAS, IDES, IRTS and the Indian Forest Service officers are posted in the moffussil towns during their initial years of service. Some of them are posted in the remotest areas of the country like Jammu and Kashmir, North-East, Andaman and Nicobar Islands, Lakshadweep, border areas, etc.”
So, will 7th Pay Commission look into this "inequality" and give equal pay to all officers across services? What is your take? Which side you are in?

107 comments:

  1. You show me the face and I will show you the rule, aptly applies to this situation. Any kind of logic defying argument can be given to garner privileges, if there are willing listeners. Similarly however strong the evidence or data may be if the providers in position are not inclined, then it really doesn’t matter. I joined government service in 1986. I would like to cite the example of Indian Postal Service. First posting in a backward dusty district like Pratapgarh in Uttar Pradesh, with no housing facilities. Then posted to terrorist affected Punjab with no perks or privileges like those enjoyed by Central Govt Officers in J&K. An old rickety jeep which had frequent break downs and the lurking fear of terrorists stopping buses and randomly shooting all outsiders. Again no housing facilities. Service conditions so poor that even basic facilities are thrown like alms to beggars. Transfers so frequent that half of your belongings remain in packed condition. Four transfers in last three years spreading from Chandigarh to Guwahati. But cutting across all services, there are so many privileged officers who have remained at one station throughout their career. For Central Services, unlike IAS, who stay in one State, we have to adjust and learn the local language. Thus I have struggled with a smattering of Kannada, Punjabi, Awadhi, Haryanvi & even Marathi & now time for Assamese. The elite services get all facilities and privileges, unheard of by lesser services. If still some Services want an edge to appear distinct and superior it is high time they concentrate on the quality of service that is being offered by them. Thanks to their efforts of focusing on perks & privileges alone, today corruption has reached endemic proportions and has become institutionalized.

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    1. I am a clerk in a Central Govt. office for the last 30 years. I too was a strong IAS-aspirant till I crossed the age limit. After going through randomly all the views published, I would like to express that one should enjoy the job he or she gets without any influence or bribe in the life. Though the system in the country is not completely reliable for the honesty and sincerity, life can be enjoyed fully with whatever we have. These comparisons of marks, facilities, perks and places etc. will only result in un-healthy and un-wanted analysis rather enjoying the life with whatever you deserve. Money and facilities are not the criteria to have a peaceful life. I would like to mention a person as an example who was selling tea from building to building in Bombay by his bicycle during 1970. One day when he was supplying tea from his kettle to the officers/staff of Central Silk Board, Bombay there was an urgent need of stenographer. As this tea vendor had passed the exam, he was taken to the job Jr. Stenographer on temporary basis. The luck of the keralite tea vendor turned, he was personal assistant to 1or 2 IAS officers of Kerala cadre and got elevated to the posts of Asst. Director, Dy. Director and even Joint Director (Admn.) within no time and ruled department more than any IAS officer. He had a heaven in Central Silk Board, Bangalore without any transfer instead he shifted the Head Office of CSB from Bombay to Bangalore. All IAS officers posted as Administrative Heads were his puppets and still his ruling is being continued even after his retirement of 3 years as an Administrative Consultant with same facilities and perks that of a Minister.

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  2. Excellent analysis. Every point in his argument is correct. Even IAS officers would accept it. All these officers are recruited through the same exam and they do equally important work for this country and its people. Then its natural that they should be given equal salary. If the government wishes to have different pay structures for different civil services, then IPS and IRS will definitely score over IAS. This is actually a mockery of the democracy. There cannot be hierarchy among various services recruited by the same examination. Modi should intervene and remove this disparity lest it will lead to more heart burn and chaos in the administration. I do not have much faith in 7th Pay Commission as IAS will write it. I only hope Justice Mathur is well informed and works boldly and decisively. This caste system in bureaucracy should end immediately. British white supremacy was replaced by the brown Indian supremacy. ICS hegemony was replaced by IAS hegemony. The country cannot go on like this.

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  3. Totally true. I can relate to what Madhuri Dabral madam said. Central Services officers work in atleast 5 to 10 different states in their entire career. Some unfortunate ones will work in 15 states also. All India Service Officers work in hardly 2 states. Among All India Services, IPS and IFS officers work in difficult circumstances and places. IAS is the service which is most comfortable when it comes to postings. Then why should IAS get the highest salary? Actually IAS should get the least salary among all services. This IAS created apartheid in India should end immediately. Modiji please act fast and eliminate this IAS hegemony. Country needs fairness and equity.

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  4. So far the argument of diverse and tough service profile or condition for IAS is being projected, one must wonder as to why IAS officers are not ready to share their so called load. The reason behind this is that it would dilute their power what they are enjoying in name of responsibilities. Factually all mangoes are not equally sweet, but after all it is undeniable that all are mangoes not potato. What logic may be put forth for justification of talent difference if a candidate got selected for IRS in first attempt and then for IAS in next attempt?

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  5. Thats the point. IAS claims higher salary arguing that they hold important posts. So why not give some of your responsibilities to other services?

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  6. What is this logic ?u apply n compete n fill ur preferences and no one may have filled first preference other than IFS /IAS n each one of us had chances and opportunity to improve or change if one desires . Once one has joined the govt services knowing all the pros and cons one cannot dictate or demand such unreasonable changes in service conditions such as pay parity for all or work profile parity . The demand for secretary level posts from specialist services is quite reasonable . The pay difference need to be maintained in order to attract the best talents among the aspiring civil servants to chose one of the two policy making service be it internal or external affairs .

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    1. At the tender age of 21 while filling preferences in form what pros & cons can be known? first generation officers with less educated parents, no mentors, weak backgrounds, poor financial condition, no money to attend the coaching classes - what can such youth anticipate? It is only those whose parents are officers or IAS, IPS, the kind who come in large cars to exam centre, UPSC interview with servants & parents in toe, large thermoses & delicious food, no worries except full time concentration on single task of clearing exam. Rest Papa or Mummy will take care. I know so many officers from village school who worked hard & filled preference unknowingly according to order given in UPSC Brochure. They ended up getting P&TAFS service despite high rank of 223. Later on after one year they came to know about inside working of government and superiority hierarchy of services.

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    2. The comment by this IAS officer AnonymousJuly 9, 2014 at 9:24 AM is actually highly illogical. Firstly, He claims no one fills services other than IAS/IFS as first preference in their UPSC form. This wrong and misleading. Please check the facts. Many preferred IPS and IRS over IAS/IFS. Secondly, He says IAS/IFS should get more pay because they have higher rank in UPSC. This is also wrong. The analysis by Prasant shows that IAS officers are all not toppers. Even if we go by this logic, then IRS should get more pay than IRTS, IRAS, IAAS, IPoS, etc by virtue of a higher rank in UPSC. So this logic is meaningless and promotes British imperialism. Third, he claims that IAS & IFS are policy making services. Sorry boss, every service is a policy making service in its department. IRS officers make policies in Income Tax Department & Customs Dept. Railway services make policies for the Indian Railways.

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    3. Who on earth fills lets say IRS as first choice. I have also taken this exam (and not succeded) and every time I have filled IAS as first choice. Can IIM Luckhnow passout claim pay parity with IIM Ahmedabad though both taking the same CAT exams. Comparing other services with IAS is completely preposterous. I may regret not getting in to IAS but may not regret geeting in to Indian Defence Accounts service for instance. My private secor job is far more challanging or paying than these third rated cadres. I think these services should be pulled out of civil services exam....

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  7. Ground reality is stronger person is eating the weak. IAS eating into rights of central services. Police Service eating into rights of officers of other Para military forces. Income Tax eating into each other. Postal service eating into Inspectors & lower Postal staff. Audit Service eating into other Accounts service. All civil services humiliating Defence Services and sending wish lists from headquarters for CSD purchases stay in officer’s mess at exotic locations on subsidized rates etc. Thus everyone who is powerful is eating up anyone who is weak. If an audit is carried out most frequently transferred officers are those who refuse to compromise. Let them bend and forget principles. Life will be cool. CSS officers in Ministry eating into all departments under administrative control of their Ministries. Comparing the perks of field staff and flooding Ministers with demands for similar privileges but refuse to compare responsibilities. No one is bothered about posts requiring independent decision making and those with no independent decision. These cannot be compared and given equal perks. If a Under Secretary level officer in field gets a vehicle, then a Director level CSS officer in Ministry cannot demand same facility because his junior is enjoying that facility. Requirement of Job needs to be taken into account. An IAS officer who has never worked as a Deputy Commissioner in the District or as a Commissioner in a Division for at least 2 years should not be eligible for Central Deputation. Posting in field is avoided just like Doctors avoiding rural posting. But IAS Secretary Health shouts at doctors avoiding village posting but forgets his own avoiding of posting in disturbed, naxal affected or rural, backward area. Therefore all are alike. Give equal pay. No need to create an elite group of incompetent officers and allow them to lord over others.

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  8. dear friends apart from salary difference ,the IAS officer gets very early TIME SCALES which aggravate the sorry plight of other services further .e.g in the IRS INCOME TAX 91 batch is addl commissioner but the IAS is principal secy which if monetised means at least 40000 per month.THIS GOES ON TILL RETIREMENT CAUSING HUGE MONETARY LOSS to other services .

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  9. In all the developed countries, it is the specialists who are considered important and the generalists do not count much.It is a symbol of backwardness that in our country, a andperson having secured high marks in an exam once in a life time remains superior to others and subverts other sevices as well as experts throughout his career. in all the developed country the top positions are held by experts for limited period.That is one of the reasons why our bureaucracy is rated as one of the worst in the world.If we have to be counted among developed nations,the present system has to be drastically changed,with abolition of so called premier services consisting of generalists, which dont count in the developed world

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    1. unfortunately for you, you are wrong. in the USA, the main service is the competitive service, and in UK the home civil service, which are generalists.

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    2. We do need generalists but anything in excess is not good for the country.
      IAS officers maybe good policy makers but doesn't mean that the other service personal are not.

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  10. The same should be implemented for Central Secretariat Service (CSS - Group A members) who were directly selected and recruited through the Civil Services Examination.

    The entry (20 percent) to CSS from 1946 until 2003 was through Civil Services Examination; however after Cadre restructure of 2003, entry through civil services exam was stopped.

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  11. For the information of all those who are concerned about IAS superiority.
    ARC's recommendation for opening up posts at the level of JS and above to all services has been rejected by Govt.Instead govt has decided to promote functional specialisation within IAS cadre itself.This will further strengthen their case for all superior positions.So all non-IAS people should peacefully come to terms with the reality.Or else,keep checking your blood pressure on a regular basis.Satya Prasant,be ready for treading the rough patch awating you!!!

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    1. The "Anonymous" person should shut his mouth. He looks like an IAS lobby in work - degrading other services and eating into others work and privileges.



      India and China were the richest countries in the world from year 0 to year 1760. India did not have IAS or civil services. However, after British loot and their modern shitty IAS have made India the poorest country and modern joke in the world.

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    2. Dear Shruti Kataria,
      I am a civil services aspirant.I don't have any incentives for working for IAS lobby.The deep-rooted institutional set-up will automatically work in favour of IAS.Whether IAS is an asset or liability can be understood only by a person having genuine knowledge about history,politics as well as present governance.There is no remedy for "cultivated ignorance" that afflicts people like you.

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    3. a) The revealing full form of IAS is "Indian Arrogant Service" or technically "generalist, good for nothing and for no one."

      b) The IAS and IFS can dance and do all diplomacy, but India will never be given and permitted a permanent member of UNSC. The world powers do not want India on it (the reality!).

      c) According to statistics, nearly half of India's 1.2 billion people have no toilet at home. This means that more people are doing open defecation (Bangladesh has better statistics).

      d) India currently has the largest population of illiterate adults in the world with 287 million. This is 37 per cent of the global total.

      I am not an IAS officer but a member of the Central Civil Services (Group A). I would like the IAS to be abolished.

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    4. Ms Kataria, it is not the fault of IAS only. there are several who are working in terrible conditions in chatisgarh, in manipur, and elsewhere. why do we get forget that people like khemka, durga nagpal,vinod rai and tn seshan, jm lyngdoh are all IAS. You appear to be from one of those irrelevant central services, since if you were IRS you would've definately stated so. Try working as a SDO with a mamta or a jaya or a badal sitting on your head.
      Having said so, the IAS guys to get their act straight as well

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  12. I feel its same old sour grapes story . Almost all the IRS people who have posted above article appeared in the UPSC Civil services exam with IAS as their FIRST Preference, But when when they DON'T get TOP RANKS , They don't get IAS its that simple. If one has to be IAS he needs to in top 100 ranks . If you guys need IAS please study well next time like most of them do and get rank in top 100. But don't whine to understand this simple logic. Its same logic everyone writes the so called SAME Engineering EXAM , but only the topper's join IIT electronics, lower rankers have to settle with IIT civil/Msc . How can a civil engineer later in his career demand a salary of Comp science guy . I am sorry but Its the same logic between IAS and IRS , both are not same. IN THE MERIT LIST of UPSC ranks

    P.S I am not an IAS officer, but if I would have written exam , like you all IRS , I would also prefer to be Opt IAS as my 1st choice

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    1. First do not claim that you are not an IAS. Have some guts to accept it. Do not fool people like all IAS officers do. Your logic says that IAS should get more salary than IRS because he is a higher ranked guy. Firstly this claim is wrong. Just go through the article written by Prasant. His analysis shows its a myth that top rankers in UPSC are alloted IAS. Secondly, by your logic an IRS should get more salary than IIS, ITS, IRTS, IRAS and other services because an IRS has higher rank in UPSC. Then there will be a hierarchy among all the 20 odd services recruited by civil services exam. This very idea is idiotic, barbaric, jurassic, medieval, unfair and uncivilized. All services are equal and deserve equal pay. Please understand that the country is bleeding because of this IAS hegemony. Our country is like our mother. If mother bleeds we bleed. If country bleeds we (including IAS) bleed.

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    2. See the arrogance of the Anonymous and the IAS lobby:

      a) In the international relations, India is regarded to be a 3rd world, poor and a corrupt country.
      b) India has the largest people on earth with diseases, malnutrition, rapes and gender violence.
      c) The per capita income of India is only $1,584.

      Japan, Singapore, Thailand, South Korea, Maldives have better economies. China is now emerging superpower with world's largest economy by 2016-17.

      India however remains the world's poorest country (since 1945). IAS is a national threat to India and should be abolished for country's development.

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    3. I don’t like anonymous people taunting others. If a person does not have boldness to disclose identity even he should not make fun of others. Anonymous people are cowards who show phony boldness without risks. Grapes are not sour. Everyone is proud to be in whatever service they are. Unfortunately IAS have spread myth that everyone jealous of them because they are superior. I want to know why has the IAS lobby blocked the Civil Services Performance Standards and Accountability Bill. The IAS lobby is sitting over it since 2004. Of course the corrupt Congress Govt had been supporting corrupt IAS officers. Therefore this crucial Bill is being blocked. If the IAS officers actually think they are epitome of wisdom and the best then why do they complain against RTI Act that it is hampering decision making. Why they do not want to follow transparency and ethics? Answer – If they follow ethics and transparency they will be exposed. IAS is so vulnerable it fears everyone and is fighting with windmills like Don Quixote.

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    4. Dear anonymous, ur logic laks cogent reasoning. Yes top rankers in IIT jee preferred electronics, at the same time there are others who are passionate about a particular field and they opt for cicil or mech even after getting top ranks. It is a fact that mexh ans cicil engineers are comparatively less paid. Ur logic fails because u hav compared people working under different employers. Cicil engineers work for different companies than electronics engineers. So it is the perception of the company and their nature of work. But take the exmpl of company like general motors, it has both electronics and mechanical divisions and hence heads of each dicision are paid salaries at par to eacj other. Similarly here in cicil services, all I*S are employed by same employer and all officers of same level doing same work have to be paid same salaries. Got it ? I exam cannot decide your life. Take one more exmpl of sbi po. All sbi pos are paid same salaries since they are recruited through same exam. It is not that an sbi po who got 1st rank is paid higher than last ranked person. Dont think that u r the most intelligent person on earth giving stupid logics

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    5. Dear friends,
      I wanted to be in the IAS. The vacancies in that year was very low (340) compared to the 1000 plus recruited in the recent years. I donot fall in the reseved category and hence even my All India rank within the first 50 did not get me an IAS. I have served for more than 15 years and held key portfolios in India and abroad. I am very confident to say that more than 50% of the IAS officers serving now from 1991 onwards had an All India rank inferior to mine. So where is the best brain concept across the years when all the Group A service officers are taken on the basis of the same examinations? Regarding responsibilities also, IAS does not have the monopoly of responsibility. Take for example the Revenue Services which help collecting the revenues for the Government which can be utlised for the expenditure of the Union government in various fields. Earning is more important or spending it? Both have to be wise and prudent and equally important. Similarly the Police force. Do you think that a Police force maintaining the law and order and gathering and executing intelligence inputs any lesser a responsibility? There has to be parity. Equal pay for equal work is but quite natural.

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  13. "The IAS officer is basically an ayaram gaya-ram. He is transferred at regular intervals. It is almost impossible for him to show commitment when he knows he is going to be transferred in a short span of time. I never understood how, for instance, the agriculture secretary can be a person who does not know agriculture. Someone who passed some competitive exam thirty-five years ago is today placed in this post, when until yesterday he was, perhaps, law secretary, and the day before that he was the defence secretary. What a strange system this is of administering the country. I am convinced that IAS, in its present form, will have to be abolished sooner or later. There is no other solution."

    -Verghese Kurien
    Chairman NDDB and Father of White Revolution

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  14. The young lot of IRS are very brash. An IRS in Investigation wing does the work of any investigative agency like CBI, ED, IB and State police. An IRS in ED/CBI/DRI/DGCEI/IT(TRO) have powers to make arrest of accused people. An IRS is independant of any IAS or other civil servants and even can conduct raids on IAS. An IRS in CBDT/CBEC does the important work of policy making(Eg Direct tax code) like IAS. So, the IRS have all the powers of any IAS and IPS. They are ready to take their service to new heights which is of course a legitimate demand. So, dear others who think that they do more important work and hold important positions, please note that an IRS does as important work of any IAS and IFS or for that matter any self proclaimed cicil service. An IAS apart from working in secretariats also work in commercial tax depts as Dy. Commissioners. So, here they are doing the work of IRS i.e tax administration. So, the IAS has indeed agreed that their work is as important as any others

    - An 'IRS' aspirant :B

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  15. Certainly not. IAS Cadre is the baton holder of erstwhile British Trained "ICS" who had helped the British in establishing the RAJ to rule on natives. We are the kings. And kings must sit on a higher pedestal and not allow any other to come any way near them. Therefore, my answer is distinct "NO"...no other service must get pay equal to us or even near to us. We have treat them as 'Slaves", then only we can rule.

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  16. The argument that IAS officerare posted in small towns therefore deserve more salary is inherently flimsy and implausible. They get earmarked accommodation, vehicle, sufficient
    number of staff at their disposal.more than More importantly, the cost of of living in small places is much less compared to that in
    bigger ones . Frequency of transfers again cannot justify higher salary.Firstly, officers of other services are also rransferred quite frequently. Secondly, transfer allowances are given.As far as challenges are concerned, officers of services like IPS, IRS (both), IFS and others work in more challenging circumstances; ;sometimes risking their lives.As far as talent is concerned, it cannot be a monopoly of IAS.In my batch only we have seen extremely talented, ,wonderfully gifted and sincerely dedicated officers. Further richness of experience is not because of talent or privileges but a function of opportunities. Moreover, as the society and economy grows more complex and sophisticated the role of specialised services must get more importance over the generalist.

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  17. Whatever we may argue the fact remains the supremacy of IAS will continue till there are feudal remnants in administration which give a mai baap status to a bureaucrat of general variety.In India also the craze for IAS is more in comparatively less developed states and their importance is minimal in states with increased public consciousness of their rights.In Delhi also they have acquired supemacy by cosying up to the political class and resisting all positive democratic change.That is one major reason whu our country is still not considered a developed country and our bureaucracy is rated one of the worst in the world.Of course there are honourable exceptions in IAS as well as other services of public spirited honest officers.The situation can change only with increased public awareness and cutting down on their oppressive attitudes and privileges by the operation of a strong lokpal.Then we can move towards abolition of generalist services like in the developed democratic countries.

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  18. We the IAS have a god ordained right to rule this country and we shall not let these petty clerks dilute the same. It is out of sheer generosity, that they have been allowed to call themselves 'commissioners' and directors', they should not let this semblance of bureaucracy go to their head. They are not bureaucrats but mere clerks recruited to do mundane, repetitive, mindless work.

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  19. Since 1995, half the batch of the IAS has lower ranks than half the batch of the IPS/IRS. Then why the difference in pay?
    If indeed, ranks are to decide pay, then let pay be defined by rank in the Civil Service Exam. A person ranked 5th in the exam opting IPS should be paid more than a person ranked 198 and in the IAS.

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  20. I am a civil services aspirant. Like everyone I too want to prefer IAS as my first choice. However if I land in IRS I do not want to crib and do not want to write again for IAS. But I want to know a few things from IRS. IAS almost gives me celebrity status for whatever I do. What will IRS give me? I have never read in any newspaper about the work done by any single IRS officer. If I join IRS how will I be known among large population????
    I want answers from senior IRS officers only.

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    1. If you want applause, why don't you join the circus?

      Proud IFS (Group-B) Employee

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    2. HAHAHA Awesome reply. Civil services is for serving the public not to become a raja

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    3. HAHAHA nice reply . Civil service is for serving the public not to become raja

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  21. If rank is the lone parameter to judge the service then let all the rankers write again and see their ranks. 1st ranker of this year may not be able to retain it in the subsequent year or anytime later at all. So, when ranking itself is not permanent, then how can one service claim supremacy forever on the basis of the ranks obtained. Ranks of a year should be used for allotting various services and then forgotten but these ranks are not indicators for permanent supremacy.

    The government headed by IAS made restriction of writing the civil services exam after getting IAS/IFS. Is it not clear from this that the IAS wants a deliberate supremacy over the rest of the Services? Are the IAS afraid of losing the unfounded and non existing hegemony by removing the restriction? Why shouldn’t government allow the IAS to appear again? Remove the restriction and see how many IAS join other services. The government headed by IAS is forcing many an unwilling IAS officers to continue in IAS instead of allowing them to appear for Civil Services again.

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    1. I have not heard of even one person ever wishing to join another service after being allotted the IAS.

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  22. the IAS is supposed to bow its head and bend its back before even a street level politician, else IAS is not allowed to eat public funds.

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  23. Dear IA&AS Officers, please strongly oppose an IAS Officer for appointment as CAG. You spend almost 30/35 years in your department, and an IAS spends 30/35 years in the state/centre in various departments fearing Audit on one side and serving political bosses on the other side. Such officer is appointed as CAG to head IAAD. What is his knowledge of audit and how can he be unbiased towards his herd of IAS heading other departments?
    It is for the people of India to take decision.

    IAAS Officers are requested to closely monitor their audit officers while doing the audit. Your lower officials are taken care of well by these IAS managers for which your officials feel happy and do not bring to your notice many acts of misappropriation of funds. IAAS guys! please conduct audit on your own in some select departments and you will come to know stark realities.

    IAAS Officers! please save the country's resources and funds from the clutches of the trade union- IAS.

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    1. What was the name of that incompetent IAS CAG again? Oh right, Vinod Rai, the guy who unearthed the 2G scam and stood up to the entire government.

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  24. What's the point in fighting among ourselves When the government salary overall is peanuts.the hra etc are sickening and low If transfer is the basis then why can't we ask Seventh pay Commission to make it costlier for Government. At least three months overall salary of one is transferred before tenure.. If salary is the issue why not look at judiciary. They took 6 pay commission and another part commission over it. They get paid so much more.

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  25. People placed in a job suiting their temperament are assets for themselves and also for the society at large. They can perform assigned duties and responsibilities cheerfully and deliver desired outputs.
    The present position of inter- service disparities is a disincentive for young people to opt for group A services that can offer opportunities suiting their temperament. Instead they are lured to the artificial 'superiority' of services like IAS or IPS.
    A nature lover is best suited for the Indian Forest Service but he/she gets sucked by the muddy swamps of 'elite status' offered by service like IAS.
    It will not be out of place to say that the discrimination under discussion is causing tremendous harm to the Nation at large. Therefore, it is essential to discard the disparities between the services and cultivate a culture of equality and respect between them.

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    1. I am really happy with the comment of Mr. Suresh. I fully agree with his view. A person will perform best in a field of his choice. Thats a truth. Personally I like teaching very much. But why didn't I choose that field? Its because Civil Services gives better career prospects than teaching in India. Similarly my first choice in Civil Services Exam was IAS but not IPS or IRS which I feel I am suitable for. Why? This is just because the IAS offers better prospects. This artificial division of jobs in India based on cooked up differences of power, prestige, status, etc. makes people choose a career option other than the one which he likes or in which he can perform better. In Germany a University Professor and a Kindergarten teacher are paid the same salary. This allows the teachers to decide to join in a University or a School based on their interest. This gives best results. So it is essential that disparities between the services or between various professions are removed. As Mr. Suresh said we should cultivate a culture of equality and respect between them.

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  26. This is really foolish. I know for a fact that all the toppers from 2097 to 2012 of the CSE have joined the IAS. Satya is just trying to distort any and all facts possible so that he can become popular amongst the IRS( After all, he has been standing for election to the central body of IRS for many years). What unites people better than jealousy?

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    1. Satya plz correct yourself yar. I respect your analysis but it seems oversimplified, presented to bolster your view point only.
      Civil service exam is like a sprint race, winners are winners others are loosers. Yes, I agree if they race again winners may loose. But I cant demand the winners tag when I loose.

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    2. And some of them have also been chargesheeted for corruption cases and landed in jail also.How foolish to think that a person who passes an exam once in lifetime will remain competent and honest throughout his life.Such thinking has managed to keep the country backward and underdeveloped.

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  27. Dear friends,
    I wanted to be in the IAS. The vacancies in that year was very low (340) compared to the 1000 plus recruited in the recent years. I donot fall in the reseved category and hence even my All India rank within the first 50 did not get me an IAS. I have served for more than 15 years and held key portfolios in India and abroad. I am very confident to say that more than 50% of the IAS officers serving now from 1991 onwards had an All India rank inferior to mine. So where is the best brain concept across the years when all the Group A service officers are taken on the basis of the same examinations? Regarding responsibilities also, IAS does not have the monopoly of responsibility. Take for example the Revenue Services which help collecting the revenues for the Government which can be utlised for the expenditure of the Union government in various fields. Earning is more important or spending it? Both have to be wise and prudent and equally important. Similarly the Police force. Do you think that a Police force maintaining the law and order and gathering and executing intelligence inputs any lesser a responsibility? There has to be parity. Equal pay for equal work is but quite natural.

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  28. this article and the comments are so biased and totally baseless its no wonder my pro-differentiation article was filtered out. something for the editors (disgruntled central services officers with average IQ suffering from IAS-envy, i presume?)

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  29. it is really sad and stupefying how disrespectful and embarssing officers from the other services are of the IAS - when everyone knows, including those officers who keep giving the CSE even after clearing, in the faint hope of getting IAS, that the IAS is incontestably, inarguably, inevitably, the CROWN of indian civil services.

    the IAS is fundamentally different in nature and structure from the other services - and everyone else just pretend to not know this?

    it is the only generalist service in India, designed to be "jack of all trade and master over all" as the primus inter pares of the services.
    why? because its primary function is to be coordinator among the various services and departments at every level of administration (district, division, state, union), to be supervisor as heads of departments in their capacities as secretaries, and ensure all the specialized services do their job of tending to the trees individually that the forest as a whole may be healthy.

    what if one day the union ministers were to seek parity with the Prime Minister on the ground that both were democratically elected through the same election and both were ministers, whose capabilities are more or less equal?
    what if, again, IIT-ians from mechanical engineers were to demand parity with software engineers on the ground that they enter IIT through the same competitive examination, and their abilities are no worse of than any, and that this examination is not the litmus test for capabilities?

    what if, indeed, everyone selected through graded competition examinations in any type of competition, were to claim parity between those who secure the first rank and those who secure the last?

    above all ... if the departments and services are to enjoy equal status, powers and privileges as the inter-departmental and inter-service coordinator, what reason is there for them to listen to the coordinator, when he thinks he is equal to them?

    bureaucracy is essentially hierarchical, and unless the chain of command and authority is properly maintained and executed, what you will have is chaos of the lowest disorder.

    The IAS is primus inter pares, the first among equals, like the Prime Minister is among the ministers. those ministers have ministries, while the PM has the PMO coordinating all ministries. likewise, each service is specialized to a department, while the IAS has the SDM/DM/DC/CS/CaS coordinating all departments at every level of administration.

    all i can see here in this article and the comments that follow is pure envy - IAS-envy, nothing else. so suck up guys, and stop the whining!

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  30. There is a huge gap between PB3 to PB4 in 6CPC. Is it not the creation of IAS, IPS, IFS .....IRS IAAS etc to their lesser brothern who qualify the same examination and inducted as Section Officer.

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  31. The IAS officers comments here clearly indicate their insecurities. They are behaving like the British did during their last years of imperial rule in India and the white supremacists (apartheid supporters) in South Africa before the end of apartheid. But whatever their gimmicks and machinations, the IAS is bound to fall because it has no place in any modern administration. The IAS and CSS are two services completely out of place in the modern administration of India. Both the services have to be abolished sooner than later. Politicians may be laymen and IAS lobby may try to fool them but a time will come and it takes just on mature and intelligent PM to change the system by abolishing IAS. Hope Modi is that PM.

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  32. whether it comes from a bureaucrat, a technocrat or even Steve Jobs, any statement made without any basis still remains a baseless statement.

    1. politicians are always and ever the first to argue against the IAS - not the other way round. The IAS officers are the only ones in the system who can put politicians in check.

    2. IAS will remain relevant as long as the parts of a system continue to form a structural system - which is another way of saying it will never be irrelevant. So long as there is the need for interdepartmental coordination, the need for a bureau that is more politically and departmentally neutral than the rest, the need for managerial skills over and beyond technical skills - so long as such needs are there, the IAS will remain forever relevant.

    3. If IAS officers are white supremacists, throw within that bin the PM also (why pin his hope on him when he is declared "the first minister among equals"), and every chancellor of universities, chairmen of corporations, principals of schools and colleges, leaders of religious organizations, etc etc - indeed any head or leader.
    Since by your logic anyone who considers himself head over others and leader over a group is a "white supremacist". even the PM on whom all ur hopes rest is the top white supremacist by this reasoning.

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  33. The reality is that supremacy of IAS will continue for some more time because India remains an underdeveloped country where citizens tolerate all kind of arrogance and corruption by the so called elite service.As soon as there is increased democratic consciousness in the common citizens,this service will become redundant like in the developed countries.Till then these descendants of the britishers(with some honourable exceptions) will continue to dominate and harass others.So we have to wait for some more time.Just bring a strong Lokpal and ensure accountability at all levels, the charm of this feudal service will wither away.

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  34. I cannot get something by merit, let's play the democracy and equality card. Typical whiner's talk!

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  35. Sorry to say that some of the pro IAS comments are on the lines of street level bullies,without any dignity.When will our country get rid of such pathetically arrogant and self centred persons?

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  36. //The reality is that supremacy of IAS will continue for some more time because India remains an underdeveloped country where citizens tolerate all kind of arrogance and corruption by the so called elite service.//

    = are you saying people from the other services are not arrogant at all? that they are all clean angels dropping from heaven and common citizen is so proud to have them? i suppose that is why in Indian bureaucracy the 3 most corrupt departments are the Police, the Judiciary and the Revenue! well done, you humble servants!

    //Just bring a strong Lokpal and ensure accountability at all levels, the charm of this feudal service will wither away.//
    = feudal service? as opposed to the other services being "modernist"? pah! suddenly in the age of specialization everybody sees the trees and not the forest! 3 points on bravado!
    well, do away with such "feudal" languages like sanksrit and english in the same breath, and feudal religions like hinduism as well. oh, don't forget the feudal set-up of prime ministers being prime above every other minister and set up the socialist heaven - like in Soviet Russia!

    //Sorry to say that some of the pro IAS comments are on the lines of street level bullies,without any dignity.When will our country get rid of such pathetically arrogant and self centred persons?//
    = when such statements are made without apology, in the most insensible and ignorant talk that befits the madhouses of fools, and understand the really centric role the IAS plays as the steel-frame of bureaucracy; and when such anti-IAS nonsense hanging on stilts are replaced by a clear understanding of the role and purpose of the IAS, with dignity and respect shown to this mother of services, like the respect the ministers show to their prime minister ...

    THEN the country will progress and prosper!

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  37. the IAS shall dominate the specialized services, and it must dominate as the primus inter pares --- just as the Prime Minister dominates over the ministers to ensure a smooth government, the IAs must continue to dominate all departments to ensure smooth governance ...!

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  38. All above pseudo-intellectual discussion is a farce.
    The real tough battle is for greed, corruption, which get legal outlet in terms of perks etc.The ground situation is that the IAS officer has taken a huge lead in this race of greed and corruption, in team with their political friends. can u believe that, the present generation young IAS officers are now buying assets in Singapore and all destination abroad....

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  39. //can u believe that, the present generation young IAS officers are now buying assets in Singapore and all destination abroad....//

    = of course i cannot believe that. its laughable nonsense. do provide evidence before making such sensationalist claims.

    can u believe that young non-IAS officers are now buying assets all over India and all domestic destinations and blaming the IAS for corruption?

    pseudo-intellectual discussion? wonders! where did u drop from again? pseudo-harvard?

    in the next administrative reforms commission, to ensure strong and efficient bureaucracy, the following reforms should be implemented:
    a. reserve all posts from the level of joint secretary and above for the IAS officers;
    b. provide for lateral entry of all the specialized services into the IAS, including the all-India services (say, after 15 years of service in their parent services), just as the state civil service officers get promoted to IAS;
    c. provide for a separate pay scale altogether for the IAS that shall be over and above all the other services as the primus inter pares (just as the prime minister is above his minister), since it is India's only generalist service uniquely tasked with inter-departmental and inter-service coordination, management and supervision, and its officers are uniquely trained for the same.

    then all these nonsense about ministers (oh i mean the specialized services) clamoring to be on the same footing with the prime minister (meaning the IAS) will end once and for all ...

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  40. This IAS officer has been fooling people around here. He is comparing IAS to the Prime Minister and other Civil Services to the other Cabinet Ministers. So, let us see what the Constitution says. As per Article 74, there shall be a Council of Ministers with the Prime Minister at the head to aid and advise the President. Article 75 says a Prime Minister shall be appointed by the President and the other Ministers shall be appointed by the President on the advice of the Prime Minister. This means that the President can appoint only those persons as ministers who are recommended by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister can appoint anybody as Minister even if he/she is not an MP. The Ministers shall hold office during the pleasure of the President (i.e. the Prime Minister). Since PM is considered primus inter pares (first among equals) among the Cabinet Ministers, he enjoys special status and powers which other Cabinet Ministers don't. The Parliament prescribes higher salary/allowances to the Prime Minister than the Cabinet Ministers owing to his/her higher status. The Constitution itself prescribes that the Prime Minister is the head of the Cabinet. Articles 308 to 314 of the Constitution contain provisions with regard to All-India Services and Central Services. A plain reading of these provisions will reveal that nowhere did the Constitution give higher status to the IAS over the other Services or IAS/IFS over the other Services or All-India Services over the Central Services. There is no hierarchy among the Civil Services provided by the Constitution. So the comparison of IAS to the Prime Minister and other Services to the other Cabinet Ministers is a farfetched imagination and superfluous belief of this medieval minded IAS officer. Unlike the Cabinet where the Ministers are appointed on the recommendation of the Prime Minister, the other Civil Services are not appointed on the recommendation of the IAS. All of them are recruited through the same Examination. The Prime Minister can recommend to the President for removal of any Cabinet Minister. The IAS cannot recommend removal of any other Civil Service officer. So, IAS is not considered as primus inter pares among the Civil Services by the Constitution as claimed through the wild imagination of this IAS officer.

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  41. The Civil Services Examination is not a running race where the first person gets gold medal, second silver and third bronze, etc. Civil Services Examination is not a sport or entertainment or fun like a running race. It is a medium to select persons to serve the country and its people but not a medium to decide who should enjoy what. There is no hierarchy envisioned by the UPSC/ Civil Services Examination. Unlike a running race, the top rankers in Civil Services Examination won’t always be awarded a gold medal. The Service allocation is based on rank in CSE, choice of Service of the candidate and the reservation policy. The topper cannot be forced to choose IAS. If there exist a hierarchy in Services and on that basis if IAS deserves better pay and perk, then IPS and IRS deserve batter pay than IA&AS, which deserves better pay than IRAS, IDAS &IDES, which deserve better pay than IPoS, etc. This sequence also has no sanctity. Some may prefer IAAS over IPS & IRS and IPoS over IDAS or IDES and IDAS/IRAS over IAAS. So, this very argument of a hierarchy in Services is misplaced and smacks of arrogance.
    This IAS officer refers to other Civil Services officers as fools. If the Indians under British rule and Blacks under the white apartheid rule in South Africa were fools, yes all non-IAS officers in India are fools. But the fools will one day raise like phoenix and over throw the biases existing. So, I recommend this arrogant IAS officer to enjoy at the cost of the country and its hapless people for whatever time is left for this IAS hegemony to be over thrown one day and order brought in. I only wish atleast now this IAS officer reveals his identity and comes for open discussion since I have done it openly. Or he may choose to be anonymous just like his kind that hides behind the political inefficiency/political inaction for any misadventure/negative development and takes credit for every achievement of the Government.

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  42. Yes it is a fact that no service can compete with IAS in terms of arrogance, corruption and harassment.Somehow they are surviving even in the 21st century India and are not ready to accept that most problems of the country are because of such service, which does not exist in any developed country.They will never improve on their own unless some strong democratic force unsettles them.Till that time it is futile to argue with this arrogant and self obsessed group of people.Of course there are some honourable exceptions in this service also, but by and large this group is self obsessed and anti people.People in developed world laugh at the so called steel frame that exists in a democracy.But they will not understand, because they do not believe in civilized discourse.They still believe that might is right.No point in having an argument with them.Time will take care of everything.

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  43. wonders! am i the only IAS officer stupid enough to engage with such stupidity?

    regardless, it appears the deepest IAS-haters really have no inkling about the duties of the IAS (or pretend they don't). so what is the role of the IAS in a plural, diverse and varied country like ours?

    when Sardar Patel, our patron saint, argued on behalf of retaining the ICS where Nehru wished to abolish it, he had 2 very good reasons:
    a. the need of a service that shall be neutral and rise above religions, ethnicities and cultures in times of communal crises and tensions; and
    b. the need for an all-india-service that shall ensure the country remains undivided and united even if local political forces wish to tear the country apart.

    on both counts his justification was prescient, since, whatever may be said about the state of India today, it remains a fact the country remains united despite secessionist voices, and communal riots, while they do occur, are far apart and rare (so rare in fact that when it happens, it cause a national consternation - unlike in a place like Pakistan, where its matter-of-course). the only way such a diverse and pluralist country can be held together, absent IAS, is by totalitarian force - as in the case of China.

    as time progress, the IAS continues to be even more essential for the following reasons:

    a] the need of a generalist service that shall have the authority and specialty to mediate the disputes which may occur among the various specialized services, or synergize their energies together whenever interdepartmental activities are taking place (since every specialized service thinks itself equal to the other specialists, he has no reason to particularly listen to him);
    b] the need of a service which shall see further than the departmental requirements whenever there is something to be done beyond the department; someone who can see the forest and not just the trees. otherwise, the police will see everything from police perspective, the revenue officer from revenue, the railways from railways, the doctor from medicine perspective, so on and so forth.
    there is therefore the need of a service which shall rise above these partisan interests (intentional or otherwise) and look at the GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE GOOD for the good of the citizens we all serve.

    which is why the IAS should not just be retained today but strengthened further, and all departmental heads at the centre and the states, must be IAS cadre posts - since at that high level departments inevitably interact with other departments.

    keep in mind the IAS is special in its generality not because its officers are special, but because of the very structure of the service, and the holistic nature of their training.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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  44. apparently, many seemingly well-educated people have confused democracy with mobocracy, equality with uniformity.
    are ppl really saying the IAS should not be primus inter pares in a democratic country because in democracy everyone is equal? in that case, why not extend the same argument against the Prime Minister, and criticize the constitution itself for being un-democratic in including specific clauses that defines his control over the ministers, while they being supposedly equal to him?

    or are you saying a democratic country cannot have differences at all, there can be no senior/junior dichtomy, no leader/follower, no first among equals of any kind? then u must be more delusional than i thought!
    every country and organization whatsoever has hierarchy (even intra-services there is), and you probably have an officer junior to you and senior to you just because he happens to be born earlier or later than you. call it undemocratic age discrimination perhaps? ;)

    real democracy means not uniformity of persons, but equal opportunity to all. you have the opportunity to become an IAS officer; but perhaps for lack of luck (blame the gambling god), or lack of aptitude (blame the intelligent god), or lack of labor (blame your callousness), you cannot become one even after 3 attempts, and end up in the specialized services instead (i'm generalizing here; there are notable exceptions who shoot for the specialized service in the first place, though many such persons i know of have regretted later!).
    but you cannot deny the fact the door to IAS is equally open to all!

    i believe, furthermore, that the door should be opened at some other point in your later life, if you have proven yourself worthy. talk of second chances! after perhaps 15years serving in a specialized department, dutifully, efficiently and impeccably, you should be given the final chance to enter the IAS, yet again.

    and you should pressure the Administrative Reforms Commission for allowing the same!

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  45. in attacking my IAS/PM analogy, it appears mr. prashant here deeply confuses "analogy" with similarity. obviously there are many things different about them (what two things in the world are similar?); and they differ in the nature of their constitutional positions, as he so laboriously points out. but are there patterns that both share which can enable analogous comparison? obviously there is.

    the IAS is similar to the PM precisely in the NATURE of the roles they play - the PM in respect to the ministers, and the IAS in respect to the other services. the PM does not (normally) have any ministry of its own, but presides over all ministries; likewise, the IAS does not (normally) have any department of its own, but presides over all ministries. and both are INTRINSICALLY DESIGNED to function in such a way, which is also clear from its nomenclature.
    while other ministers have specific names (finance minister is called "finance" minister precisely because he handles the nation's finances), the prime minister has no such specificity; and likewise, while other services have specific names (revenue service is so called since it handles revenue matters), the IAS has no such specificity.

    that one has its duties and powers constitutionally defined while the other has it legally defined in other codes, rules and laws, is completely immaterial. every legal scholar (in fact, even those who know a wee little bit about the nature of laws) knows there is a source of law called "established precedence"; and it is an established practice that the IAS is the general administrative service although the constitution nowhere defines it thus, and this practice has been in place since from the ICS times (even those days had specialized departments, like the police and forest).

    so the saying often goes that the IAS does not have any specific job - his job is to ensure every other service do their jobs!

    now, on to some facts:

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  46. Fact 1: CSE is like a race truly. can't think of how, or why, you'd imagine otherwise.
    what does the word "competitive" exam mean to you anyway? that everybody should pass, and everybody should pass equally? likewise, all persons thus selected should be considered uniformly equal regardless of their rank? abolish the ranking system then!
    is it really strange civil services is differentiated, when differentiation exists in many other exams too, including the IIT? do civil engineer IITians claim parity with the software guys on the ground both enter the same body thru the same exam? is the gold medallist of a race always necessarily faster and better than the silver medallist? suck it up, brother-in-service, we enter ICS thru a competitive exam!

    2. better, YOU know the IAS is different. what i mean is that back in the days, u probably put IAS as ur 1st preference in your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, attempts, but could not get them for whatever reason. u can blame the system, u can blame the interview panels, u can blame the question papers and the examination patterns, or a cold chill u had every day u sat for the exams. but you know deep down under in the shriek of your bones the IAS is different from all the other specialized services.

    3. best, even the aspirants know the IAS is different. 80% of non-IAS officers give the exams again for the second, third (and maybe more) times in the hope of getting the IAS. while there are notable exceptions, it is a statistically significant fact most people put the IAS as their first preference because most people know it is the primus inter pares.

    4. generalists are preferred to managerial posts than specialists even in the private sector, and they are higher paid than their specialist counterparts. the reason is not hard to fathom: not because one is brighter than the other, but their background training makes them into such ones that the generalist becomes more open to new and different ideas as he has attachment to none, is more dynamic and open to change since he has no specialist history behind him, and is more impartial since he does not belong to any department or service.

    5. finally, IAS officers remain the least corrupt among India's bureaucrats, despite all protestations to the contrary. in a recent asiatic-wide survey, the Corruption Perceptions' Index found the police, judiciary and revenue, in this order, to be the most corrupt in India. the IAS does not make it even to the top 10.
    again, reasons are not hard to fathom. IAS officers never spend too much time in a single department (maximum would be 5years if they are really lucky), so he does not have the time or experience to know the tricks of the corruption trade nor dare take the risk (in addition to the integrity of the officer concerned). this is systemic in nature, not a personality matter.

    let no one understand my point to mean a criticism of the other services. its merely a criticism of the officers of the other services who get too greedy and wish to have the whole cake and eat it too. u can have the cake; but u can't do the eating as well! there are clear protocols each service must follow that lays down the duties and responsibilities of each service. it just so happens that in case of the IAS, their mandate is primarily to supervise, coordinate, manage and direct - while in case of the specialized services, their mandate is deliver on the directions they are given.

    you just have to understand this common but differentiated responsibility and the faster you do, the happier and more content you will be. cheers :)

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  47. The problem of the IAS is that like the old age Zamindars, they still think that they are rulers of the citizens and their thinking and arguments flow from that mindset.The other services have to realize that India still remains an underdeveloped country because of the old bureaucratic structure led by the IAS and things willnot change easily.The old time Zamindars did not give up their rights voluntarily unless they were made redundant by strong political will.See the arrogance with which they mock at the concepts of democracy and equity.They have managed to ensure continuance of the outdated structure for self perpetuation, which no civilized or advanced country will tolerate.Why they will change this structure which benefits them at the cost of the nation.The other services should not enter into arguments with them because they are immune to the concepts of democracy, equity etc. They will be made redundant in due course when the forces of democracy and a strong lokapal will compel thesr arrogant persons to realize that they are also public servants and not feudal masters.

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  48. I am from one of the top colleges in India. Call me an elitist if you will. I want to make sure I am of use to my people. The only civil service which attracts me is the IAS. If you don't have an elite bracket and treat everyone as equal, the cream of the crop won't join. Look at countries like Singapore. Their management civil service is generalist and elite. They have accomplished so much!

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  49. The comment by Satya Prasanth that "all of the toppers from 2005 to 2012 are not from the IAS" is factually incorrect. I request the Boi team to vet such information before publishing it. In fact all the toppers since 2002 have joined the IAS. Before that period, one or two joined the Indian foreign service. Please refer to this page:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UPSC_Civil_Services_Toppers
    Each entry on that table is cited by a news source.

    In fact, I believe that the I AS should be recruited through a different examination and given higher payscales and ranks to ensure that there is a generalist, policymaking, highly capable layer at tthe top for better inter ministerial coordination. This has been the PMs focus thus far to break down the walls between departments and I believe he should continue.

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  50. The example of a small country like Singapore is not appropriate.If we look at the top developed nations of the world, there is very little space or importance to the generalist. It is the experts and the professionals who hold all the important positions and that too for limited period on contractual basis.On the other hand in our country a person once qualifying in an exam continues in the service for decades.Most of the officers recruited in IAS as well as other services rise to seniormost positions irrespective of their competence and integrity,thus becoming a great burden on the nation and a hindrance to the development of democratic institutions.No wonder some of the IAS toppers have landed in jails for corruption charges.If our country has to continue in this condition , naturally the IAS with their arrogance, sychophancy and corruption can continue as such.However if the country has to move forward with the most developed nations in the 21st century., the present structure has to be dismantled paving the way for experts and professionals at the top.The nation and its citizens have to face this major challenge now, otherwise it may be too late.With the present structure led by an outdated generalist service, we can never march forward and compete with the developed world.let the nation and its citizens take a call.

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  51. says an IAS envier:

    //The problem of the IAS is that like the old age Zamindars, they still think that they are rulers of the citizens and their thinking and arguments flow from that mindset.//
    = replace the word "IAS" here with politicians, business magnates, the judiciary, the police, IFS, IRS, or any other service ... and the ad hominen will equally hold (in some cases, perhaps even more so).

    //See the arrogance with which they mock at the concepts of democracy and equity.//
    = not at all. the arrogance (nay, your conceptual confusion rather) is in equating democracy with mobocracy in the attempt to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator.
    i can understand such nonsense coming from a socialist in pre-1990 times, but now, and that from a civil servant who thinks he has advanced further than others in clearing a highly competitive exam?!!

    my dear fellow, i'm attacking here your dystopian idea of mobocracy in order to preserve real democracy (equality of representation, not uniformity).

    //they are immune to the concepts of democracy, equity etc.//
    = quite a rich statement coming from someone whose livelihood depends on the meritocratic principle! temme. are you elected to the service you belong, or selected on the basis of merit? democratic election or meritocratic selection?

    //The other services should not enter into arguments with them//
    = whoa! lemme get this tone straight as arrow.

    first, you throw out your anti-IAS guts to get brownies (thunderous self-applause).
    second, a pro-IAS neutralises all your attacks (suddenly u go numb and dumbfounded).
    third, the pro-IAS dude gives irrefutable positive arguments for IAS as the primus inter pares (drives you crazy and mad but still intellectually numbed, and brings out the hatred in you).
    fourth, on thinking long and hard, you came up with a masterstroke: "The other services should NOT enter into arguments with them!!!"

    if the intellect of most civil servants have devolve to this level, with such heights of childish self-importance and arrogance bordering on absolute conceit you refuse to engage the arguments of those who disagree with your nonsense ... perhaps UPSC reforms are urgently necessary to separate with an even better pattern the stupid from the bright, and prevent the odd muddle-headed ball from rolling within!

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  52. says again the IAS-envier:

    //If we look at the top developed nations of the world, there is very little space or importance to the generalist.//
    = on the contrary, specialization in generalities is growing as the realization gradually dawns that the ecosystem cannot be ignored when grooming the trees. therefore, esp. in big corporations, you have generalists who are better paid and whose promotions are faster than their specialist counterparts.

    know, furthermore, that India is a country unique in its incalculable diversity, and the specialist who glue his nose to a spot cannot be relied upon to deliberate on matters that have relevance across the board. rather you need a generalist at the helm to coordinate all the specialist energies for the good of the whole.

    //No wonder some of the IAS toppers have landed in jails for corruption charges.//
    = name 2!

    //However if the country has to move forward with the most developed nations in the 21st century., the present structure has to be dismantled paving the way for experts and professionals at the top.//
    = professionalism yes, expertise also yes ... but professional expertise in what? in generalities. the professional expert at the helm must be someone who can see further than a department, further than a sector, further than an area of specialty. he must have the uncanny ability to see things in their whole where everyone else sees the parts.

    and to find such professionalist expertise, you need to STRENGTHEN, rather than weaken, the steel-frame. the IAS needs reformation yes, but in what way? to strengthen their powers and privileges, to make the service incorruptible yet efficient - to give them with specialized management and administrative tools that can synergize all the threads together and weave them into a fabric from which the society as a whole optimally benefits.

    your going about it in the wrong way pal. stop throwing the baby away with the water! your solution to solving the ecosystem is to burn the forest. it won't work! hope nobody at the top listens, suddenly becomes wise and start burning the entire edifice down!

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  53. This IAS officer has grand delusions about himself and thinks that he is the sole repository of wisdom .He thinks that all other are who have a differing opinion are stupid.This is what the the Britishers used to think of Indian leaders.He is blissfully aware of the modern structures of governance and management in the developed countries and pontificates endlessly without any introspection about the present sorry state of affairs perpetuated by the so called steel frame.Many well meaning retired IAS officers have written about the rot that has set in the administrative structure where most incompetent and corrupt persons reach to the top.The good thing is that some IAS officers have started introspection with all humility and understanding of the problems of the country and are quite reasonable .But sadly the arrogant and corrupt lot still dominates.The self obsessed lot does not believe in a civilized debate and starts getting abusive when confronted with ground reality.We have to wait for some time for them to come to terms with the reality and improve.Of course some of them will never improve because they do not have any idea of the damage they are causing to the society and the nation.They will continue to impose themselves on the citizens and harass other services to perpetuate their hegomony.

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  54. really? after point after point, argument after argument i had pleasantly endeavored in giving, is that the best whining u can do - "he is this, he is that, oh he is also this, hasn't learn this, too bad its this? what will become of the country, of my service, of me?!!! help!!"

    i have had the patience to read through your laborious, excretive, nauseating IAS-envying ad hominen whines, and found - not surprisingly - zero argument in it. apart from poorly worded slurs.

    if this is all you can say in the end and blisslfully leave aside my arguments for strengthening the IAS as the primus inter pares, untouched and unrefuted, i happily rest my case. perhaps the nation will now be ready for a public demonstration of how hollow the case of IAS-envying and whining wannabes are.

    best of luck in your endeavors pal, keep the bashing going while we assiduously rebuild the nation for the good of the whole in the teeth of opposition from many! :)

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  55. Dear Sir/Madam ( IAS ) quite an interesting and rather intriguing slug fest going on here. After reading through most of the 70+ above comments... I would like to state my humblest and personal opinion. Yes I agree it is a competitive examination and services are alloted based on merit. I know the stats well and while the majority of the higher rank holders opt for the IAS, there are indeed a few exceptions where even the IRS has been picked over the prestigious IAS. Now coming to the topic about equal pay, I see no reason as to why all the services be paid equal. Sir/Madam will being paid equally hinder your performance or challenge your authority over other services as you are indeed the generalist over seeing all departments. After all IAS is IAS.... you control them even if they were paid higher. So why not, equal pay. After all you are still going to be the master. P.S - I plan on taking up the CSE and yes I would opt for IAS as my first choice. Keeping that aside, would equal pay really hurt. Like I earlier stated you are still going to be the boss.

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  56. Friends we are discussing about civil services here. Please show more professionalism while putting forward your arguments. Do not fight like kids. All the services are important. They are equivalent in importance but not equal in nature. All services have their share of challenges but isn't it obvious that IAS who manages and coordinate other services should get more pay. After all they have to learn and handle so many different kinds of trades.

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  57. This case of imposing superiority by IAS is not something that other services don't do. A direct entry officer of CAPF is selected through UPSC as Group A gazetted officer , he spends whole life on borders and works in remote areas. He faces the bullets both from the insurgents and enemy nations. CAPFs have battalion structures where officers lead from the front unlike the state police. Therefore the CAPF officers get to pick up the finer details of operating at borders. But let us have a look at what is given out to them in return. IPS cadre has reserved almost half the posts upwards the DIG rank for themselves and above IG rank only IPS can fill the vacancies. So what it means is that a person who has never even seen a border , has never fired a shot at border , has no connect with the ground realities on the border management issues - gets to lead the CAPFs. Isn't it a mockery of the forces and their officers , who make supreme sacrifices for the nation. Can you compare his sacrifice with a IPS sitting in his comfy District SP office. CAPF officers have filed cases in various courts against this grave injustice but have not got a word of support from other Group A services who are treated as second rate officers by their IAS counterparts. I do believe that IPS are responsible for the sorry situation prevailing in the CAPF and similar verdict has been given by the various studies conducted by the IIM and other institutions, but all the reports have been brushed aside under the carpet. This was done by IPS lobby to save their own little fiefdom sort of structure that they have created in the CAPFs. I hope the government gets some sense before its too late to mend the issues. CAPF Officers should be given Organised Service status in this Pay Commission and all the top posts including DG should be filled up by their own officers who have given up their own comfort to serve the country. Only in India a beat cop Officer can be considered superior to a armed border patrolling force Officer.

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  58. On the question of the different trades the IAS is doing, there is a list of at least 7 unique roles this generalist service plays, for which its officers are trained, and the like of which there is no equivalent in the specialized services.

    The IAS is entrusted with these 7 unique roles:
    a. To protect the internal unity and integrity of the country through its overall control over the paramilitary forces, even when insurgents and naxalites threaten to tear the country apart;
    b. To ensure the law and order of a locality or region through its overall control over the police forces, even when local politicians wish to appeal to communal feelings to get what they want;
    c. To provide overall coordination of the ministries and departments at the union and state levels and ensure policies are integrated and streamlined, so that each part play their proper specified roles for the good of the whole;
    d. To provide overall coordination of the services both military and civilian, so that the needs of all specialists are taken into consideration when service policies are made, and ensure thereby the formulation of policies not skewed in favour of this or that specialized service;
    e. To act as liaison officers between the union and state governments on the one hand, and among the states on the other, on all federal-state and interstate relationships, so that problems may be amicably and diplomatically settled despite all conflicting wants and interests;
    f. To supervise the various ministries and departments in their capacities as union secretaries, or state principal secretaries, by coordinating all specialized energies and efforts together and present a coherent picture to the political masters for their deliberation;
    g. To act as mediators balancing the public sector needs with private sector wants by bringing all stakeholders together and including all their inputs.

    As the generalist service not belonging to any particular area of specialization, who is trained to see the forest where others see the trees, trained to be the steel-frame connecting all the parts of the building together, the IAS is uniquely tasked for these. And these duties can be properly fulfilled if the salaries, perks and privileges, and the authorities granted to them, are in sync with the enormous responsibilities they are presently burdened with.

    It is therefore not surprising at all that the IAS should be considered the first among equals, as Sardar Patel's steel-frame of Indian administration - a primus that must, inevitably, reflect in their pay structures too ...

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  59. Since last Pay Commission, IAS Officers have been made 2 years to all other Group A Services. In practical terms, IAS is a service whose members become a superior species as soon as they get IAS tag. To verify this, go to any state or UT, an SDM from state service is treated inferior to a direct recruit IAS. An IAS officer of particular batch will not come on phone line first if the officer from other end is from other Group A service. In central secretariat even 1996 batch IAS are Joint Secretaries but other group A services officers belonging to earlier batches are working as Directors and reporting to them. Why there is time bound promotion for IAS? IAS do not frame policies but for every work they are dependent on their subordinates. It is misnomer to call them All India Service Officers because their service is restricted to one particular state. They may not be knowing much about IT, Commerce,Telecom, Finance, Industry, Health but they sit at the top and rule on specialists. For all posts there should be a Recruitment Rules but JS,AS and Secretaries are being appointed as such without any Recruitment Rules. The biggest qualification for them is that they are IAS. The day they join, they remain cutoff from ordinary public, so how can they think of framing a policy for the common man. The Govt. has created a number of group A and B services whose promotion and other service matters are on the mercy of IAS officers. It is time that IAS and other civil services are dismantled and Experts are appointed to head core sectors like Health, Education, Technoloy etc for proper development of the country

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  60. all the statements above are as senseless as they are untrue.

    1). IAS is not a qualification but a service you become a member of as a result of your qualifications. Check the toppers' choice of service for confirmation of this matter (pick any year u wish).

    2). Because they are the generalist service to specialize the specialists and coordinate their energies together, it is no surprise at all they have faster promotions, head departments and have higher pays. All these are what attracts the best and brightest talents to the service.

    3). IAS officers are exposed to the common men right from the 1st day of the training for the next 15years - be it working in rural areas, touring and staying in villages overnight, hearing their problems out in public places, so on and so forth. I suggest u see how they work in the field for that very same reason and refrain from comments without evidence.

    4). Even all the biggest private companies and MNCs are not headed by specialists but by generalists. Why? because the specialist sees the trees; the generalist sees the entire forest. the specialist cares about the ship, the generalist of the fleet. the myopic vision of the specialist who glues his nose to a spot can never replace the panoramic vision of the generalist, since the society is far more than the sum of its parts.

    For these reasons the IAS was created and crafted as a generalist service uniquely endowed with the following responsibilities:

    a. To protect the internal unity and integrity of the country through its overall control over the paramilitary forces, even when insurgents and naxalites threaten to tear the country apart;
    b. To ensure the law and order of a locality or region through its overall control over the police forces, even when local politicians wish to appeal to communal feelings to get what they want;
    c. To provide overall coordination of the ministries and departments at the union and state levels and ensure policies are integrated and streamlined, so that each part play their proper specified roles for the good of the whole;
    d. To provide overall coordination of the services both military and civilian, so that the needs of all specialists are taken into consideration when service policies are made, and ensure thereby the formulation of policies not skewed in favour of this or that specialized service;
    e. To act as liaison officers between the union and state governments on the one hand, and among the states on the other, on all federal-state and interstate relationships, so that problems may be amicably and diplomatically settled despite all conflicting wants and interests;
    f. To supervise the various ministries and departments in their capacities as union secretaries, or state principal secretaries, by coordinating all specialized energies and efforts together and present a coherent picture to the political masters for their deliberation;
    g. To act as mediators balancing the public sector needs with private sector wants by bringing all stakeholders together and including all their inputs.

    As the generalist service not belonging to any particular area of specialization, who is trained to see the forest where others see the trees, trained to be the steel-frame connecting all the parts of the building together, the IAS is uniquely tasked for these. And these duties can be properly fulfilled if the salaries, perks and privileges, and the authorities granted to them, are in sync with the enormous responsibilities they are presently burdened with.

    It is therefore not surprising at all that the IAS should be considered the first among equals, as Sardar Patel's steel-frame of Indian administration - a primus that must, inevitably, reflect in their pay structures too ...

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  61. This IAS officer has been claiming that there are 7 unique roles IAS as a generalist service is playing. He is posting this comment repeatedly in every discussion on babus of india. Its time we discuss this comment and see if he is right.
    Claim - “On the question of the different trades the IAS is doing, there is a list of at least 7 unique roles this generalist service plays, for which its officers are trained, and the like of which there is no equivalent in the specialized services.”
    Are IAS officers trained to head all departments? Lack of any specialized knowledge doesn’t mean having knowledge about everything. The truth is IAS officers are not fit for anything. They neither have specialized domain knowledge nor management/administrative capability. If they are so good at administration, then why is India in this deep shit even after 67 years of independence. They are experts only in manipulations, deceit and unholy/immoral machinations. They beat politicians handsdown in these negative characters.

    Claim – “The IAS is entrusted with these 7 unique roles:
    a. To protect the internal unity and integrity of the country through its overall control over the paramilitary forces, even when insurgents and naxalites threaten to tear the country apart”
    What the IAS does is divide and rule as did the imperial British civil servants. The IAS sitting in Delhi and heading various Ministries, including the Home Ministry, do not allow the paramilitary forces to do their job properly. The IAS babus sit on files relating to purchase of arms/ammunitions/materials required by the paramilitary forces while the security forces keep losing their lives in the service of the nation. These IAS babus without any ground experience sit on judgment as to what type of gun/vehicle is required for the security forces. When the paramilitary forces fight with their lives to prevent insurgents and naxalites from tearing this country apart, the IAS babus will be enjoying in their AC rooms and golf and other Gymkhana clubs sipping bear/whisky/wine and waiting to steal anything available from the spoils of the war between paramilitary forces and insurgents/naxalites. So please do not make such tall and irrelevant claims once again Mr. IAS babu.

    Claim – “b. To ensure the law and order of a locality or region through its overall control over the police forces, even when local politicians wish to appeal to communal feelings to get what they want”
    Law and order is controlled by the police for your information. The only reason why the law and order breaks in a locality/region is because of involvement of politicians through the IAS babus (read Collectors/DM/DC/Sub Collectors/SDM/etc). Let the police do their job properly. Bring in police reforms. You IAS babus do not allow police reforms to kick in because of the fear of losing your hold on the police. You IAS babus (in the name of politicians) manipulate the police and public and create havoc. You instigate communal hatred through your policy of divide and rule. Politicians take the complete blame and police/public face the consequences but you get the spoils of war. Wah IAS babu wah !!!. Who signed the order suspending Durga Shakti Nagpal? Abolish IAS and you can have a better law and order in the country.

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  62. Claim – “c. To provide overall coordination of the ministries and departments at the union and state levels and ensure policies are integrated and streamlined, so that each part play their proper specified roles for the good of the whole”
    Overall coordination is already being done by PMO, Ministers, MOS, Cabinet Secretariat and DOPT. Why do you want further overall coordination in every department, wing, unit? And what made you think you are qualified for the job? We all know how coordinated the Ministries and departments are in India. You are required to take 30 permissions to start an industry. What coordination are you talking about. And why is the poverty still at 30%, unemployment raising every day, poor health & public sanitation, illiteracy, etc in India when the IAS babus have been coordinating for the last 67 years after independence. Actually in the name of coordination you stall everything to prove your hegemony. You IAS babus will not allow any Ministry/Department to function independently/properly. You always see what can be gained out of any Ministry/Department for your own consumption. What policies are integrated/streamlined because of your efforts in India so far? Only thing that is integrated/streamlined in India because of IAS babus is corruption, inefficiency, hegemony and confusion. See coal scam, 2G scam and what not. IAS lobby do not allow any Ministry or Department to function well.

    Claim – “d. To provide overall coordination of the services both military and civilian, so that the needs of all specialists are taken into consideration when service policies are made, and ensure thereby the formulation of policies not skewed in favour of this or that specialized service”
    This is complete non sense. Actually IAS ensures that all policies are skewed in their favour. You IAS babus sit in the Ministry of Defence and play havoc with the safety and security of this country. Every gain made by the armed forces over the past 67 years was compromised by the Politician-IAS lobby. IAS babus sleep over the bodies of our martyrs. The military protects the country with their lives but IAS decides what the army needs, what arms and ammunitions are to be brought. All the defence scams were the brainchild of the IAS babus. Through the DoPT the IAS lobby makes highly skewed and discriminatory policies for everybody. Ask any Army officer, he will tell you how the IAS is compromising India’s safety and security.

    Claim – “e. To act as liaison officers between the union and state governments on the one hand, and among the states on the other, on all federal-state and interstate relationships, so that problems may be amicably and diplomatically settled despite all conflicting wants and interests”
    Yes IAS does this function and the results are there for all to see. The feelings of communalism, regionalism, casteism, linguism, chauvinism, class bias and all divisive ‘isms’ are at their peak in India. So this is what IAS achieved by their so called liaison, amicable and diplomatic settlements/talents. This is a very clear indication that IAS is outdated and out of time and place and a big reason to abolish it.

    Claim – “f. To supervise the various ministries and departments in their capacities as union secretaries, or state principal secretaries, by coordinating all specialized energies and efforts together and present a coherent picture to the political masters for their deliberation”
    Yes IAS does this function also and the results are again there for all of us to see. We all know what coherent picture the IAS babus present to their political masters. IAS babus never give a fair and frank advise to their political masters. These babus are only interested in their postings and earnings. The IAS babus coordinate their energies and efforts together in promoting themselves to the detriment of all other Services, armed forces and the country.

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  63. Claim – “g. To act as mediators balancing the public sector needs with private sector wants by bringing all stakeholders together and including all their inputs.”
    Yes IAS babus act as mediators between the public and private sectors. And this is the biggest reason for the institutionalized corruption in India. All the bigger corruption cases like coal scam, 2G spectrum scam, Saradha scam, fodder scam, Commonwealth Games scam, Hawala scam, mining scam, Bofors scam, etc are because of this mediation by IAS officers. Eliminate their mediation India will prosper well.

    Claim – “As the generalist service not belonging to any particular area of specialization, who is trained to see the forest where others see the trees, trained to be the steel-frame connecting all the parts of the building together, the IAS is uniquely tasked for these. And these duties can be properly fulfilled if the salaries, perks and privileges, and the authorities granted to them, are in sync with the enormous responsibilities they are presently burdened with. It is therefore not surprising at all that the IAS should be considered the first among equals, as Sardar Patel's steel-frame of Indian administration - a primus that must, inevitably, reflect in their pay structures too”
    Actually where the others see trees IAS sees gold but not forests there. The IAS babus will immediately loot the trees and make it a barren land. Yes IAS is acting as steel frame in preventing reforms and development in the country. Instead of connecting all the parts they are dividing country into pieces by their illegal, immoral, half-knowledge and arrogant policies/actions. Enormous responsibilities are actually not burdened on IAS. They take credit for everything. They want enormous power but not responsibilities. If we go by the responsibilities, IAS babus should get the lowest salaries among all civil services. IAS is primus not by the will and wish of the Constitution or the people but by their own greed. So its high time IAS is abolished and the country is saved.

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  64. The demand for pay parity is obviously emotive issue but lacks sound reasoning. First, it is well settled principles of law that there can be discrimination on reasonable grounds. In the instant case, the discrimination is based on the cut off marks in the common competitive exam. But Cut off marks also differentiate Group A from Group B services. So if it is a reasonable differentiator in case of Group A & B, then why not in case of IAS vs IRS? Secondly, nature of service is different each having its own advantages and disadvantages. These are well known in advance to all the candidates and they choose their services based on their considered preferences and merit. Seeking pay parity afterwards could be unfair to those who had preferred to waste years and left their IRS jobs to join IAS. Hence any parity now could be implemented from fresh batches only. Lastly, discrimination is very much needed to have "first among equals" for better inter-departmental and inter-services coordination.

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  65. Agreed. There can be discrimination on reasonable grounds. By this logic you are demanding higher pay for IAS over IRS, then give higher pay to IRS over Indian Postal Service or Indian Information Service. Many officers left other Group A Central Services to join IRS. They have wasted many years of service. So seeking pay parity afterwards could be unfair to these IRS officers who had Preferred to waste years and left their other Services to join IRS. While filling application, we give preferences for 24 odd services. So there should be gradation/difference in pay between all these services then by your logic. And is there a gradation or ranking of services given by Constitution or Parliament or UPSC. Toppers do not always prefer IAS. There are some who preferred IPS or IRS over IAS. What about their salaries? Shouldnt they be given salary equivalent to IAS? The preferences are not always same. Some may prefer IPS or IRS over IAS, some IAAS over all, some, Customs over IRS, some IDES over IIS, etc. So is it IAS and rest? No it is about 24 different services. We are comparing between two or more Group A services here not between Group A and Group B. Group B are recruited by SSC not UPSC. For inter-service coordination between services including IAS, why should IAS coordinate. Why not a non-IAS. You IAS guys are not coordinating here. You are promoting yourself. Ask some non-civil servant to coordinate then. Please do not put forward skewed and outdated arguments in your favour Mr. IAS babu.

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  66. Why did the IIS officer join the IRS? I passed out from a top college in India recently and know the mindset of those who enter the civils. People are attracted to the I AS because of the power and the oppurtunity to earn name and fame. The sad truth is that today people join the other services as a consolation prize and for much greater under the table gains.
    The IRS is one of the most pervasively corrupwt services in GOI. Don't take my word for it. Ask any CA about this. They feed on other peoples corruption and that is why their pervasisve corruption is not part of the public discourse and do not get associated with big name scandals. I am sorry but like Singapore, there must be a culture of meritocracy for good governance. the IAS should in fact be restored the privileges that other services have slowly taken. Their primacy should be restored and their paysca le should be a token amount higher to break the siloed nature of our government with officials unwilling to go to each other's meetings. As long as the quality of politicians doesn't improve, the IAS must remain primus inter pared at the top for holistic decision making and to break down the walls of government. It's a good thing that the current PM understands this.

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  67. These IAS fellows keep commenting here posing as non-civil servants and private sector employees. They support IAS here in the guise of private sector guys. Cheap tricks.

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  68. I am a recent graduate of IIT Delhi and currently not planning to enter the civil services. I have family members In the I AS as well as other services. I think that most I AS officers are confident enough in their position and abilities to not waste their time here. It's the ones who are envious who come here often and I feel compelled to intervene when I read the torrent of jealous, uniformed thought. The I AS officers will approach the PM or PMO if they have a genuine demand, and not this forum. Though the civil services are slowly losing their sheen, today, if there us one service that attracts the best, it's the IAS. I am also currently doing a fellowship with thegovernment and have interacted extensively with IAS officers, PSU guys and other services. Generally, There is a HUGE difference between IAS and the rest. of course there are exceptions but in terms of sheer probability, The I AS guys are confident in their abilities and are hence approachable. The other guys are all about showing how important they are in their pitiful feudalistic structures. The IAS officers are more professional and have greater cross understanding of issues and have greater independence to air their views. Unlike other services where the word of the boss is final, I AS officers know that they can courageously make their views known and the PMO/cabsec can back them up if they have a principled stand. If it's primacy is not maintained, you will have the luddites in other services manning IAS posts as well. If you want the cream of the country to join governance, retain the IAS Must remain the top interface between the political executive and the machinery of governance.

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    1. Frankly your post shows a very deep understanding of the IAS abilities for a person of your stated background. It would be appreciated if you could give your reasons for arriving at this conclusion. I have interacted with variety of IAS fraternity. Some not corrupt. But to frankly tell you they carp at taking bold decisions due to their lack of understanding of the issues they lord over. What out nation requires in domain experts who know what is good for their department not some generalist who want to while away their time. That's the reason our nation is in the state it is. All IAS are not so called cream. Identify the cream promote them let the rest of rifraf retire. Let the policy matters be experts in their fields as in US and other first world countries. If these IAS are so good compete for the top spots in the ministries especially at the secretary level where policy matters have to be decided. Only domain experts can develop water tight progressive policies,, not some generalist with good command our english.

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  69. The gripers on this forum and those who say they can man generalist posts as well haven't come to terms with a simple fact:They just didn't't make it.

    Even in the private sector, the CEO is almost always an MBA and not a technology guy or any other specialist. We shouldn't coinfuse role with function. A technology guy may be extremely Important in a tech company, but the final decisions are still taken by a guy who has business sense, is a good communicator and inspires:the CEO. The CEOs skills may be more replaceable than the engineers but the CEO is still the boss for the good of the organization Because he has years of experience in balancing decisions and people and interests.
    Everyone wants to be a ceo because society associates the ceos positition with power. However, the really good CTOs will tell you that they are meant to be CTOs and are proud of it! Though they don't get the final shot, they are more immersed in their work and it excites them. Similarly, the gripers on this forum should be more excited by their specialist roles and be proud of them rather than hankering after generalist positions because society deems them more glamorous.
    Lastly, if they wanted to join the ias but couldn't because of rank, too bad, that's life! It was a level playing field. At the time of joining, you knew that Ias is administrative(the name communicates it) whereas the other services have a specialized role in their names themselves. In the Ned this generalist vs specialist debate is a false dichotomy. Everyone is a specialist. IAS officers specialize in administration which by itself is a complex task with its own skills just as CEOs specialize in making administering an organization well.

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  70. ^Apolgies for the many misstypes. I was using a phone.

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  71. The edge for IAS is founded on the premise that they scored few more marks than the officers of other services. In case this logic is appropriate for application, then the salary of IPS should be more than that of Group A officers and within Group A also, Revenue Officers should be more than railways and so on.
    Actually the IAS is in extra-ordinary enjoyment of perks and facilities because they are seated in decision making positions in this regard.
    It is actually a case of a blind distributing alms to its own kind.

    Suresh Dalal

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  72. The generalist claiming to be able to perform specialist functions as he is trained to do so is akin to a neurosurgeon trying to perform a cardiac operation stating that he studied human anatomy during his MBBS days!

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  73. Well, I don't know which power and money most of the people claim to give it to IAS.
    If you think the entire lot of IAS is happy with their lives, .. you're wrong. There are plenty of unhappy cases. There are many cases where IAS officers left the service. Ex:- Nilesh Londhe, Maharashtra cadre.

    Now, my reply to the one who claimed that Mech or Civil Engrs from IIT cannot claim salary at par with Software Engrs. I'm a Mech Engr from IIT Delhi, .. currently working in Alberta, Canada in Oil & Natural Gas Co. I'm drawing an initial ctc of $1,90,000 p.a which is not offered to most of the Software professionals in Palo Alto.
    So, ... it is the calibre of the individual and not the conventions everytime..

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  74. I think everybody is missing woods for the trees. Even if you get IAS pay, it's peanuts when compared with other corporate jobs or even public sector jobs. Ask for perks rat heron than just salary.

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  75. an unbelievable 6 of the first 10 toppers of this year's CSE are erstwhile IRS officers who decide to opt for the IAS - which is a record in itself (although since 2002 all toppers have consistently opted for ias).

    if the claim of service equality is clearly true, are these 6 new (retd) IRS officers clearly delusional? did they not know the services are all equal? could these toppers have been crackpots for not seeing the light? is it possible these bright young minds are actually dumber than imaginable? how many young ips, irs, ies, ifos, iaas, and other central officers are still out there preparing for May exams in the hope of getting the ias? perhaps 90% of officers still with attempts left? any of them among us here by chance?

    or could it be that the IAS is indeed truly different and premier, and everyone here pretends that it is not? cud it be that this service is, after all that's said and done, truly unique and special, above the rest? and everybody, deep down, knows it?
    why wud an SP of a district opt to give the exam again and prefer to be in the IAS though this makes him 5years junior? how many other central service officers here will jump to turn leaf so fast to become an IAS officer - if only given the opportunity?

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  76. Choice of service depends upon the interest of individuals.

    IAS are not supreme.

    Yes, it is true that they are close to the law makers. They make favour of themselves on the cost of others.

    But remember that talent should always be promoted.

    Field should never be criteria. This policy discourages the talent of others, which is not correct.

    Everyone should be given equal opportunity. I have personally seen some of the IAS who even don't deserve to the position. Just because of the time they are enjoying the position.

    I have also seen some of the people in middle management from other services who take the responsibility, and they have full potential for higher post. But just they are non-IAS, they suffer.

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    1. this happens to be true of any civil service. u think all ips officers are qualified to be police? all revenue officers are also equally qualified --- but that its only the UPSC toppers who are unqualified? its a rather cute logic don't u think --- the better u do in upsc exams and get urself the ias, the less qualified for that post you are? ;)

      //Choice of service depends upon the interest of individuals.//

      still doesn't answer my question: if all services are equal, why did these precious talents quit their equally good service to join another? and not just others but one - the ias?

      see that i'm not talking about exceptions here. not just they, most officers from other services continue to prepare for ias. saying the allotment of service is "according to their interests and temperaments" rather than according to their aptitude, reminds me of that man who, when asked by a foreign analyst why so many indian footballers play only in india but never in premier leagues, replied, "its because we indians opt only for national games!"

      as someone said, "an elephant with a trunk is a miracle - but all elephants having trunks, now that's a plot!"

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    2. My dear friend, the rush behind IAS is not because of its higher pay, but because of the nature of the job according to once likes. If a person has an aptitude for a particular kind of job then he/she try for it. If it's otherwise they would be least bothered about it. There are so many candidates who've opted IPS/IFS/IRS as their first choices such people are not fools to give another try for IAS. Many Forest service officers settle down in their service without bothering to try for IAS because it's their like. Of course there are so many candidates like you who believe that IAS is a better pasture and keep trying for it. Every job has its own importance and nature. If you argue that IAS should get a better pay for its nature then I would suggest that a Soldier in an army should be paid more and should get more perks coz he works at the cost of his life. Do you think your service in anyway greater than his? Obviously you'd say no. When all services are recruited at the same level then why there must be any disparity among such services during the course of their respective tenure. Tell me how can you justify in an IAS officer becoming a revenue secretary over an IRS officer? Prior to it such officer would've been a Sec in some fisheries dept all of a sudden you become Rev S ec sit for two and get transferred to done other dept leaving the state of affairs on an helter skelter. Is this fir you are seeking a better pay over the other services? People are crazy behind IAS because of their colonial mindset and because of the colonial legacy attached to the office of the Collector/DM. Once they get into the service they realise that it's another job but with more public interaction.

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  77. Joint Income Tax and CID Raids on IAS officer in Bengaluru.
    http://www.bangaloremirror.com/…/R…/articleshow/48488060.cms?
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/…/rs-4.37-crore-…/1/458811.html

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    1. what's that suppose to mean? that a couple of IAS officers are corrupt?

      did u really expect an entire service to be so clean and blameless? now that will be a first for the world!

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  78. I know its an old thread. But the logic given by some ias officers that their service should receive more rank just bcz they scored better marks in an entrance is stupid . Its a logical fallacy in itself and i can site 10s of reasons why.

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